Interview with Dou Wei, 2002

conducted by: Slumber
published on "Popular Music", Jan & Feb 2002

Dou Wei speaks slowly and in an undertone, but he's very talented, very apprehensive. Or shall i say, he is talented and apprehensive because of his slow and calm and self-possessed words. His simple utterance reveals his apprehension, also reveals his personality. He's so self-possessed and calm that he is almost "cool". Just as his cold tone that seems from another world. And his round semi-spherical forehead, all in all presents a glassed-in statue in the museum with nice stereo. Comparing to many sabre rattling celebrities, he's always enjoying himself quietly, he'd rather express himself through his music. But he can drive at a heartquake speed, so i can see he'd be very swift and dangerous in crucial necessity. But also he is very sensitive and emotional. To say exactly, he is a expressionless and "cool" person with maniac craziness within. At the same time, he is extremely rational, sometimes he would think this colorful real world the same as what he saw in the dissecting room years ago.

Slumber: What kind of performance would you be interested to attend nowadays? What style of arts do you prefer lately? Is music your favorite, or not always? How do you like modern dancing and experimental drama?
Dou Wei: Whatever as long as it is interesting, I am attracted to any style of arts.

S: Among all styles of arts, is music your most favorite, or just one of them?
DW: Music is just what I'm good at relatively... My strong suit, in my way.

S: But it is not necessarily your favorite, right?
DW: You can say i'm enthusiastic in music, but i also like others, for example painting, Performance Art, decorating, etc.

S: Have you ever try any of those?
DW: I've been painting, once in a while, just for fun. As for Performance Art, I used to do one some time ago, and i'm still doing it now, i call it "finish your food". That is, every time i dine, i'd estimate the amount of food i need and consume it completely, with nothing left. But that's just my view of Performance Art, perhaps it's not much about art.

S: That reminds me of Premier Zhou En Lai (reigning 1949-1976). It is said that he'd eat all the rice in his bowl every time he dined, without one piece of rice left, even if one piece of rice dropped on the table, he'd pick it up and eat it. As for your "finish your food", does it concern moral, self-cultivation, or just something else?
DW: Yeah, something like that, the meaning of "finish your food" is something like what you said.

S: So what exactly is the meaning you want to convey?
DW: Well, there are many sorts of behaviors in our daily life, i don't mean to act in an odd or abstruse way, but in an ordinary way. I had been doing that "finish your food" thing for a whole month, and i'm still doing it now. During that month, i had finished all the food every time i dined.

S: Even when you're way too full, and you'd still keep eating?
DW: That would not happen, 'cause i'd have estimated the amount of food very carefully before i eat.

S: Did you keep making music?
DW: Sure, i've been making music all the time, and i'm still into it, as for whether i can follow through, i really can't tell, 'cause life is unpredictable.

S: Do you think that one's creativity can be infinitely developed? Or maybe it would run out some day? Did that ever happen to you?
DW: I think you don't need to presume anything, as long as you're still carrying on, things will be proofed. I've never thought of the possibility of running out of creativity, i think that's meaningless.

S: Think of some day, your creativity couldn't keep up with your intention, would you still keep on making music?
DW: As i've said, you just keep doing it, don't presume anything, besides, i don't think that things in the future would change as you wish. Just keep doing it, as long as you still have the mood, and still have enthusiasm in it, and you still have ideas and inspirations, that's it.

S: Is music merely a hobby to you, or due to it's great spiritual power that you have to devote yourself to it and be obsessed with it?
DW: Music is something hard to describe or express in words. Music is both a hobby and enthusiasm to me, and it also has negative influences on me. It's natural to encounter mind-blocking and emotionally up-and-downs when creating.

S: Is the interest towards music the most important reason for you to become a musician? Or because of the spiritual evoking?
DW: Interest is premier, because of this prerequisite, you'd have positive responses to music. If you're not interested in music at all, you won't be attracted to it, you'd turn to other things. So interest is most important, then you'd be aroused physiologically and mentally, at least it is the case to me.

S: Would you force yourself to do something in which you're not interested but is very worthful?
DW: That's hard to presume, i think one would consider many factors and make a decision.

S: Last time i mentioned about "Rock music" carelessly, you said you hate this title, right?
DW: Yeah, 'cause it's misleading, and that title has been quoted too many times! It's like a stumbling block, Rock is drawn away from music. So i think, the "Rock music" people are talking about, is like this ten years ago, and will still be like this ten years later, that's misunderstanding.

S: Do you think the music you made when you first started was Rock?
DW: You can call it Rock.

S: But actually it is not?
DW: I didn't pay much attention about whether it is Rock or not.

S: But now you dislike the title "Rock" so much, there are few people would be like that.
DW: 'Cause honestly there are not too many people in this Rock scene that i admire.

S: "Not too many" means there are some. Who do you admire?
DW: It's not necessary to quote names, i'm just talking about my perception.

S: When come to the conception of Rock music, do you think there is any essential differences between 80's and nowadays?
DW: I think that in 80's people are rather enthusiastic, including myself, passionate, or anything else. But nowadays, i think that Rock music is no longer pure. Some people might use that title to achieve ambitions that has nothing to do with music.

S: That is, your understanding of Rock music originally is totally different from now.
DW: Honestly, i didn't know much about it before, i just followed my own interests, feelings and tastes to make music, and now still the same. I haven't changed that idea in the last ten years.

S: What was your initial motivation of making Rock music? Why did you begin with Rock?
DW: Maybe it was something about age. Besides that, it was about interests. Of course the exoteric influences are important, i realised that music can be expressed in that way, it's so different from our conventional music education since we were kids, it's so surprising - so emotional!

S: You just mentioned about convention, when Rock music became a new convention - actually it is the convention of young generation - do you think whether there is something that can replace Rock music in the future? That is, when Rock music became a mainstream convention of teenagers and of our life, do you think it necessary that something new to destruct that convention?
DW: I think that anything unreasonable must be demolished! I mean unreasonable phenomena. For instance, when people are accustomed to and accept certain kind of music, they hope it'll never change, musicians get well paid, while fans can hear what they're familiar to. That mode is inertia, yet both musicians and fans would never get tired of such mode. Such things should be changed, at least i want to change it, 'cause i think it has nothing to do with music anymore, it's just like a circus.

S: Do you think Rock is music, by it's meaning?
DW: Rock is one tiny drop in the music ocean, so it still is music, the problem is, people tend to separate Rock from music.

S: No, no one separate Rock from music. On the contrary, in China when mentioning about music, they seem to think Rock is the substitute of music.
DW: Not likely, Rock is just one style of music.

S: Do you think Rock is a phenomena, a commercial behavior, or a spiritual phenomena, just some pure music?
DW: That depends on the attitude of the person who makes "Rock music", what does he emphasis? At least there is possibility that Rock can be used as some commercial tool.

S: As one of this commercial society, living in cities, hanging around scene of debauchery, do you think you can avoid the influence of commercial?
DW: Anyway i firmly believe that there is nothing absolute, especially in China, i believe that it depends on the person, what does he think, he'd act following his mind, no matter purposely or unconsciously.

(Slumber: when we did the interview we were in a quite special pub in Houhai, Beijing, looking out the window the lake was all white with snow draping, i suddenly felt a strong yearning of listening to certain kind of music)
S: We can take your music as the background of our conversation.
DW: Background music, that's what i'm gonna do in the next step, it doesn't have to express anything specific, it is merely a background.

S: Sometimes background can turn into foreground, and vice versa.
DW: Yeah, background music can be merely a sound, it doesn't need to please the listener.

S: It has nothing to do with the listener?
DW: It is not made to meet the listener's taste, it is just some sound.

S: It's like the sunglow or the vesper, it'll still be there even without anyone noticing.
DW: Right. Talking about background music, actually people just listen to it once in a while, most of the time they just focus on whatever they're doing. but the music is still there, it doesn't need to be understood.

S: Sometimes background music is better than those which force or induce you to listen, it's more independent.
DW: I think it's more natural. It has its own reason. It doesn't intend to tell you something, or express something. Those intentions are unnatural, or say, not fit in modern times. As far as i know, when you intend to tell people about something through music, they probably won't understand. While if you give up that intention, and relax yourself, then you can concentrate more on music itself and won't be disturbed by other complicated moods.

S: Such background music has been lingering in your head now, does it have anything to do with your age?
DW: Yeah, at least i do think this way at this age, maybe i'd change in the future, or maybe i'd change back to my original thoughts, but it takes time to tell.

S: Your music off your previous two albums has a bit resemblance to background music, but perhaps it has some difference from pure background msuic yet.
DW: I was not too much into background music yet, at least i still have my own subjective intentions while making music, or say on purpose.

S: So essentially your music has nothing to do with Rock anymore?
DW: Comparing Rock with music, i think music is more natural. Rock as a title has its history, i'm trying to forget that history and convey my visions through pure music.

S: But your basic music elements and your way is still Rock, unless you completely discard them.
S: Anyways i think we can forget about the title of Rock, it's been ten years now, if we still stick with Rock, how boring would that be.

S: In world wide scene, do you think that Rock music would encounter its essential problem one day?
DW: I've never thought about that, 'cause things in world wide scene are not in my control, let alone in world wide scene, just in China Rock scene, a musician can't do much about many things. So i reckon i'd better not think about such things, all i have to do is keep creating. No matter Rock or other styles of music, you just keep going on, that's it. Recently i've made a new album called "Sigh In The Rain", and it also has a subtitle "Wordless" - what else can i say? (ed: those two titles have the same pronunciation in Chinese). Actually most of the time we are quite confused, we can't always achieve what we say or what we want, so that's a question to all of us. In that new album, i used archaize styles in designing, but it's different from real ancient languages. At the same time i used some ancient Chinese words that are quite difficult to most people. Besides those characters there is no other images on the inlay, 'cause i thought that would be distracting. The Chinese characters are printed in white color, with crimson red background, while on the front cover the album title is printed in black color, with the background of some blue-hued blurry image. That's a photograph casually taken by a friend of mine in a car, it was a blurry image of a taillight of the car ahead.

S: You seem reluctant to talk about Rock music, but the music you're doing still has connection with it. Would your music have nothing to do with Rock one day?
DW: Probably.

S: This title has turned into oblivion to you now?
DW: I'm sick of this title already, and of course i wouldn't expect people to have new conception of Rock music.

S: I think that your new album is not quite "Rock" already, whether purposely or unconsciously.
DW: It depends on the listener, every individual listener has different conceptions and apprehensions, so i won't expect anything specific.

S: Do you think Rock is close to Performance Art or close to music?
DW: I think that whether it is Rock or not, the "performance" conduces to music, they should combine together, it is impossible that music goes first and "performance" after.

S: So you think that the "performance" at one's will is all-important?
DW: I mean not just Rock, "performance" and music are connected to each other, let's talk about music instead of Rock, "performance" goes first, then the person has apperceptions, and then feelings. Besides i think your differentiating is quite misleading. No matter being great or trivial, it's all about life, so i think it's unnecessary to differentiate purposely...

S: Do you think that the boundary between different styles of arts can be wiped out? Do you think that an ordinary person can become an artist?
DW: I remember a quote, that is, as a living being, everyone is an artist.

S: You just talked about feats, do you think that any style of art can be changed or even discarding its specific feat and develop itself?
DW: Anyways i personally am never restricted to any feats or techniques.

S: But i knew that you chose your recording directors very carefully. To you, technique is always on the second place, right?
DW: At least it is, so far.

S: But among your contemporaries, your technique is very advanced.
DW: Yet i still emphasis on the music mood.

S: So have you been practising day and night to reach such technique level, or is it just your genius for music?
DW: I think that people often make things too complicated, too premeditated, the point is, what way do you want to express, rather than using the most popular way, that is very important, choose the right way to perfectly express yourself, instead of being a copycat.

S: Actually my first access to your music is the song "Light of Hope". I think that to all musicians, it is good enough to have two or three songs to leave a good name forever, no one can make every album, every single song of his creation to be classic. I reckon that "Light of Hope" is one of those classics.
DW: I'm honored! As for classics, in different phases there should be different classics, but one classic of one phase doesn't represent the classic of the musician's whole life.

S: In my own opinion, things that are hopeful, would not be those realistic, but those hallucinating things.
DW: I think most artists have such hallucination, and by the force of hallucination he or she would pursue his or her visions, such hallucination is most beautiful in life, most inspiring, the most powerful motivity. I just drew a painting of the night piece here, i come here quite often, so i paint quite a lot.

S: Is hallucination more important to artists than anything else?
DW: Of course it's the most important, if you don't have hallucination, you'd never be able to create, you'd be satisfied with reality, and that wouldn't do any good for creating's sake. Most artists use hallucination to reconcile to the real life, so things can be easier, so that if he or she is rather unsatisfied with the real life, at least he or she would have a tiny world of his or her own visions that is satisfying.

S: What's the difference between hallucination and perception? Hallucination and madness?
DW: Hallucination can cause madness!

S: Can madness cause hallucination?
DW: I think madness can only cause reality, take Performance Art for instance, no matter art works or performances, they are all consequences of madness.

S: I'd thought you would say that madness can cause some horrible things - some artists ended up with schizophrenia, or committed suicide.
DW: Well that depends on how far the hallucination goes, comparing to normal people.

S: So you think hallucination is extremely important to artists, is it important to scientists?
DW: I don't know much about science, so i can't tell. My only impression of science are those experiments i did at high school - general experiments, anatomising, etc. that's all.

S: It is said that you'd been studying in a nursing school?
DW: Yeah, for two years.

S: Did you actually do any autopsy?
DW: Not with human bodies, but i'd seen human muscles, bones and nerves preserved in formalin. And i'd seen bodies of an adult male and a little girl - the color had changed and looked like soy-sauced beef.

S: Did you think it scary, or maybe you'd seen too much and got numbed?
DW: It was scary when i was little, 'cause those bodies are how the people who were staring at them would become one day - but i don't have more impressions other than that. So i don't have much to say about science.

S: So, how did you think of the song title "Light of Hope", was it out of hallucination, or just casually poped up in your mind?
DW: Most of the song titles are out of a fleeting thought, intuitively. That's also how i got my latest album title "Sigh In The Rain" (Wordless).

S: It's not easy to think of such name, in post-modern times we are all in a puzzle of language game.
DW: Yeah, something like that.

S: It's very interesting that you could think of such poetic word as "Sigh In The Rain" (ed: the title in Chinese). How exactly did you come to that name?
DW: It was raining at the time. So i call it "Sigh In The Rain", and there's a song with the same title in that album.

S: How did you come to the idea of virtual language?
DW: Well, it's hard to tell, probably from the impression of our daily conversation, the sound of people's pronunciation. What is language for? A tool to communicate and perceive. In the massive extent of time and space nowadays, most language is just a waste of time and falsity. For example, on TV and radio broadcast, there are too much of these...

S: Garbage of language?
DW: Right, garbage of language. Nowadays, especially among the media, most words are lies, or bullshits. More over, the talker doesn't even know what the hell he or she is talking about, just in order to stir things up a bit.

S: You mean in Asia, or in western countries?
DW: All over the world.

S: I think especially in western countries, the media monster is much more horrible there. Some news turned out to be ridiculous.
DW: That's why the lyrics to this new album are quite difficult, at least people wouldn't understand the meaning at the first glance. I'd like my works not to be so simple, so straight.

S: You mean it should be confusing at first listening?
DW: At least there should be suspensive. The other day i went to a Germany short films show, each film is no longer than 15 mins, i watched 7 or 8 that day, at the time i kept wondering "what's going on?" And in the following 2 or 3 days i still kept wondering, even till today, i think those films are intriguing. I want my works to be like that, not so straight, but leave the listeners to think back afterwards.

S: I was a Rock maniac once, but now i've gone to the opposite way, i'd rather hold a critical attitude on Rock music.
DW: Indeed there are things to be animadverted among the Rock scene, as i've said before, some Rock stars are merely using this title, they had been quite success before but after years they're still the same, not improving at all, and they call themselves Rock artists. I really can't agree with those people.

S: In my personal observation, you've been consciously keeping some distance to this modern civilization and this city, more or less.
DW: I wouldn't deny that. 'Cause there are things that i really can't agree with.

S: What is the most that you don't agree with?
DW: Like the problems in the Rock scene, as i've just said. Make some songs, and then just sit there waiting for people to admire you, and indulge in that success and fame, and make loads of money. I'm not saying that money is evil, but you've got to keep a balance - don't just think about the money, indeed if there isn't any income at all it would be tough. So the point is to keep the faith and make money at the same time. That's what i'm trying to do.

S: You've been doing live shows less and less since 1995.
DW: Most live shows usually make the performers embarrass and nervous, they can't enjoy the show at all. Why? Because they don't enjoy their own music in the first place, they are not excellent artists. Sometimes 6 or 7 bands gathered together, as a group they supported each other, and admired each other, at first everything was ok, but after like ten years, they're still running things in the same way, and new bands would break the ground, while these newbies have been extensively influenced by those old guys in these ten years, i think that's absurd. Take the show i attended in Sept. in QingDao for instance, i didn't play old hits that many fans are familiar with and are fond of a lot, i didn't do that to please the audience and make it a successful show. Instead i played songs off the new album "Sigh In The Rain", i believe that the audience had never heard anything like that before, i wouldn't expect they like it or hate it, and i would never shout out "I hope you guys would like it" on stage! If they could understand my music, then keep on listening; if they make catcalls down the stage, that's their business, it's their upbringing and habits that cause their behavior, so that's not my fault. I even told them on stage that they can make their exit orderly, while whether they can be orderly that's their problem... I can't remember which punk band once told me that "We are not licking the audience's ass." That sounds a bit corny, but that's quite true.

S: I think for some punks they don't mean it when they say that, perhaps that's exactly what they're doing, licking the audience's ass, 'cause they know what's the most fashionable, the most popular. The old Rock style and image and Rock music, are no longer attractive to these people now, they don't bother to beat their brains and think, they'd rather pursue something fancy and exciting.
DW: Let's not think about what was the intention when they said that, simply think of the sentence, i think it's quite true in this Rock scene, most of the so-called Rock artists are licking the audience's ass, they can't think of anything else; oh right you're a Rock star, you made some popular songs, then you got self-content, you take other's praises so seriously that you believe in them doubtlessly, you began admiring yourself......

S: Would those things be embarrassing and painstaking?
DW: Only those who still have better conscience would be embarrassed, that means he or she still knows better, while if he or she wouldn't feel embarrassed at all, then i think......

S: How far is the distance from Chinese Rock to western Rock?
DW: I think the problem is the skills and techniques.

S: So it's not about conception?
DW: No, never. There's not much difference between the conceptions of eastern and western Rock, but when comes to producing and mastering, high leveled techniques are necessary, i think that's a huge difference. Listen to the sound of recording, then you can tell.

S: Is it a problem of Rock music, or is it a general problem of all styles of arts in China, including movie, drama, modern dancing, photography, video recording?
DW: I think it's obvious in Rock scene, as for other style of arts, there would be some difference according to the special techniques and expressing way. Generally there is distance from western in all styles of arts.

S: What you mentioned about is not only the problem of Rock scene - that is, there got to be some people to carry on the mission. It's a serious problem in other scenes, probably we Chinese are lack of some kind of self-obligation.
DW: It depends on how much do you feel obligated, i have this feeling, too, i myself feel obligeted to keep on creating.

S: Do you feel obligated to expose this shell game?
DW: I think that it's useless to criticize those things. It's not my business to use my words and thoughts to criticize, i'd better leave it to the so-called critics and music reviewers who have better accomplishment and thoughts.

S: Do you think there are any good critics in arts scene in China?
DW: I believe there are some. But many critics are ineptitude, all they want is just to make a profit, or have other motives.

S: After your latest album "Sigh In The Rain", what will come next?
DW: I'm preparing on something new at the moment.

S: Don't you think it's a bit dangerous when you emphasis on words?
DW: On the contrary, i see a new possibility, if people are talking nonsense and playing language games all the time, why can't i just make a bit more fun out of it? See, in Chinese language there are four tones, that's much more diverse than in English - So i can sort of make some tricks, one pronunciation can refer to different words, i'm not interested in cliche and bullshits, so i'd play it my way, i pronounce the same syllable, but use various words to express different meanings, and there are so many possibilities, i think it's more fun. When things are at the end of their tether, new stuff would definitely break through. I'm quite optimistic about it.

S: On the contrary i'm rather pessimistic about it. 'Cause everything belongs to a relative system or an aggregate. For example you use "do ray mi fa so lah si" to compose, the permutation and combination of these seven notes could be very large, even infinite, but finally it'll reach a limit, so at the end no one can compose, there's no new creation anymore.

DW: I think that there's nothing that you're not able to do, but ideas that you can't think of. See, there's an international arts festival held once every year in Hong Kong, i've read some review of this specific show, the performers were a group of chefs, brickies, and carpenters - and they made all sorts of sound while doing their jobs, just as how they do in everyday work, on stage, they made a concert by doing that. Then i thought, there's so many possibilities, which are not restricted by any accomplished facts. Ain't it a novel idea. And there were more than 2 thousand people down stage watching them, you know. And i've actually seen another show: two old men, one on flute and the other on drums, it was said that they are famous folk artists in India. All instruments they were playing with were traditional Indian instruments. In India there's this drum that you've got to start learning since very young, the ten fingers are ten drumsticks, the audience can hear the hit by the drummer's little finger clearly, even sitting at the last row of the theatre! And those two Indian artists on stage were like chatting by flute and drums. The show was amusing, at the same time it was quite amazing, i mean, it was so different from anything you've seen, you'd think to yourself, "why have i never thought of such idea?" All i'm trying to say is, there's nothing you're not able to do, only you just can't come up with the idea.

S: When the room for imagination is less and less and finally no room left anymore, what else can you think of? - nothing new.
DW: It depends on the time and space, at least you still have imagination at the moment. If it'd be as what you presumed, no room for imagination left, but as an artist one should still have hallucination, right? What would he or she imagine? You just can't tell by now......

S: So you still believe that at least arts can keep on developing? No limits? No ending?
DW: I think so. Only, the style of expressing would be different, there would be changes and improvements, and that's inevitable, nothing surprising, all you should think about is how much difference does it make to the arts as a whole.

S: I mean, in the extension of arts notion that is acceptable or agreeable, there is less and less possibility to explore or exploit, even none left.
DW: You're too pessimistic. On the contrary, i think, as long as we......

S: Take chess for instance, all the rules are set, can you have any better chess manual than International Chess Masters? It seems impossible.

DW: I noticed that you mentioned the word "extraordinary" three times. I think that's a bit misunderstanding, if you think that you've got to make it extraordinary with whatever you do, things might end up the opposite way. I think you should sit back and relax, don't presume anything before you start, don't expect it to be extraordinary. 'Cause that's unnatural. Every extraordinary people, i believe they had never expected to be extraordinary at their beginning. Imagine Vincent Van Gogh, do you think he'd expected himself being extraordinary? I believe not, i guess that he must have been feeling and sensing while painting, whether sad or excited, but he wouldn't have thought about things like being extraordinary. When an artist has a mood, an idea, then do it, just don't expect to be acclaimed or admired by others, don't think about the honor, applause and flowers. Besides extraordinary is relative, so you're extraordinary on Earth, but in the extend of the whole universe you might be nothing. Back to where we were, talking about Rock music being used as commercial, as for myself, i'd like to be an ordinary people, do whatever i want to do.

S: The problem is you ain't nobody, you're not in a desolate place, you are in such a city...
DW: But i try to keep a modest mind, i believe that would help me to be more free-minded, instead of being restricted or bounded, being nervous about others' opinions. I just do whatever i'm interested and whatever i'd enjoy doing. It's simple as that, but people tend to make things complicated, restricted to the commercial and cultural situation.

S: You just said that Rock music being used by commercial, but on the other hand, isn't Rock music contemptibly using commercial as well? Rock and commercial are colluded, and they're trying to control the whole society. And many people are using them to make profits, and poisoning the next generation.
DW: I don't think it's that simple, 'cause nowadays commercial is everything, and it's not easy to measure how much Rock music has been controlled by commercial. Maybe your intention is nice, but, once you're in the circus, you would unawares be... If you live with a lame person you will learn to limp. So it depends on whether you're purposely or involuntarily, and what opinion and perception you have.

S: At the back of your mind, what style of arts do you think supreme, Rock music? Modern dancing? Performance Art? Experimental drama? etc.
DW: I don't like to compare that way, i don't like that high and low concept, i'd rather see them as a whole union. Nowadays... i'd like to quote some words from an American friend: In China, renaissance is about to surface. He felt that way. I'm not sure if he was being objective, or sarcastic? Anyways, my impression is, there're lots of cultural events these days, very active, at the same time, "art" as a title has been quoted too frequently, even abusively. Now i'm ashamed to quote that title, "art", as well as "Rock", these titles, i'm so f*cking ashamed whenever i quote them! - Of course that's some babble, just between you and me. All i feel iS: either it's the dead end, or it's the beginning of a brand new world.

S: I wonder what did your American friend mean, about the renaissance, did he mean that things are gonna be like in the U.S., or back to the original of arts?
DW: I'd think in two wayS: either it's a possibility of hope, or it's a sarcasm towards decay. But i'm optimistic about that.

S: You know, nowadays in Chinese movie, music, literature, poetry scenes, all they're doing is to please the westerns, especially the Americans, and take that as their unique and highest goal, as long as the westerns would like it, they'd do anything, whether it's art or not, even if it'd humiliate the dignity of us Chinese. They're dying to be favored by the western, they don't even have the faintest concern about the dignity of being a Chinese, being a human. Considering the circumstances, China has been more or less influenced by western, so, it's inevitable to be commercial.
DW: Actually i have a strong feeling of crisis, but i transform the crisis to a hope of a new order and a new possibility. Those old conceptions and old ideas are going to a crisis, but behind all that there might be something new smoldering. But what would this new thing be like, we can't tell yet.

S: When did you begin to revolt against the "Rock" title?
DW: About two or three years ago, having seen all these mendacious things in this circus, it makes me sick! So i've got new cognitions - i had been enthusiastic and active before, later i thought in a negative way, then i had new cognitions, at last i withdrew myself from this scene.

S: What particularly took you to that decision? It's not easy for ordinary people to give up all these benefits and fame by suddenly quitting this scene.
DW: 'Cause all those things would draw people to... i think that's sort of some narcotic, too, makes you feel like mr. big, but actually you're not.

S: You know, such narcotic is very hard for anyone to get rid of, so how did you do it?
DW: I can't tell what exactly was i thinking, my first thought is i'm not interested in it. If i was interested, i'd try my best to grab it, but if not interested, why waste my energy and time. Anyways as long as i'm interested in the music itself, i wouldn't consider how much profit it'd bring. To make it simple, whether i'm happy or not, at least it's what i'm interested that brought me to that state of mood; instead of not interested yet still force myself to do it; that's not the same thing.

S: For some more spiritual people, what they're interested are often non-profit. Then after a long period of time, they would probably become relatively poor and lonely. If so, how long can you go on?
DW: I think if you have the faith, all troubles can be solved. Think about the communists in the old days, they could sustain the cruel torture and everything, 'cause they had the faith. As for the renaissance my friend had said, i'm not sure what exactly he meant, but it wouldn't have any influence on what i'm doing, i'll still go on with what i'm doing. All "sayings" are after "doings", right? If you didn't do anything at all, there'd be no saying about it, and besides, not all the sayings would be correct. All those criticisms upon my music, whether good or bad, i didn't see too many that had struck the right note. While i can see some reviews that concern more about the writers' personal moods. First of all, i don't know any of the reviewers, secondly i have no idea what kind of persons they are. If they have any wise idea, i believe that would be observable in the texts. But i've never read one, most of the criticisms and reviews are just talking in generalities, didn't strike the right note.

S: You've been to Miao Feng Mountain, right?
DW: Yeah, just going out a bit.

S: How did it feel?
DW: Exciting, as long as i'm dashing out the city to the nature with friends i'd be very excited, and we would play many games.

S: "Dashing out", interesting, it seems that city is a cage to you, even make you feel "dashing out" instead of going out. So you'd dashed out, would you like to come back? - When you're having a great time?
DW: Dashing is just some metaphor, comparing to city life, it's a relax.

S: Merely relax, not the ideal life that you long for?
DW: You'd have feelings while relaxing, and when you're back to city life, you might probably have new feelings to the city.

S: While in the nature, have you ever felt that it's too intoxicating that you're reluctant to go home, but you have to for some compelling reason?
DW: Yeah, compelling reason, but...

S: What if one day this compelling reason doesn't exist anymore, would you leave the city resolutely?
DW: Well that's just a presumption, it's hard to tell right now.

S: Do you think you would retreat to more private life, like reclusion, after you have made all the success? Or would you keep on making music until - like you're fifty? Sixty? Eighty? Ninety?
DW: I won't consider these things now, i'll just keep going, and see what would happen, i'll try to fulfill my dreams. Don't think about the success. As long as you're enjoying yourself, just do it.

S: With success i mean to accomplish the eternal ambition of your whole life, achieve everything you want deep in your heart. If all these are done, would you be a reclusion?
DW: It depends on the state of my mind at the time.

S: Two or three years ago while i was listening your music at the time, i felt your tendency to reclusion already. I always have the feeling that, although you're in and out the luxurious city scene, yet you're quite dissociative from all those things, and you've been keeping this way, although that might be compelled, it's obvious in your music, both in melody and in lyrics, it sounds so elegant, so transcendent, so extramundane.
DW: Well, i myself didn't realize that, perhaps i wasn't thinking about that.

S: Which attracts you more, movie, Performance Art, or painting?
DW: Painting is more practical, movie? I'd thought about it, if there's any chance for me to make some movie music or soundtracks, that would be fun. I'm quite interested in painting, and i enjoy the process of painting, and it's convenient. Movie is relatively inconvenient. We tried to shoot videos while going out, and it was lots of fun, everyone that was shot in the video was happy when they watched the playback. We didn't prefigure any theme at the beginning, we just relaxed and had fun, so we made quite good acts, everyone was excellent. It's all very natural, nothing premeditated.

S: Thinking back at the beginning, how did Rock music attract you? Was it some exciting live show? Or any other influences?
DW: How beginning do you mean?

S: The very beginning.
DW: As i said, it has something to do with age, i was about 18 or 19, so it has something to do with the way i was educated and expected at the time.

S: Was it some Rock show you saw, or some Rock music you heard?
DW: Music. After listening to Rock music, i got strong response and feelings.

S: Empathy?
DW: Yeah, 'cause i'd never listened to anything like that before, and it's more infective logically and musically, so i was obsessed with it, and i'm still obsessed with it now. I've been with Rock music all the time, and i've been trying to make my own music.

(translated by krazy)